Want to know the secret to a long and happy life? In our inaugural episode, Dr. Robert Waldinger joins the podcast— Harvard psychiatrist, psychoanalyst, and director of the Harvard Study of Adult Development. He discusses the secret to living better, the importance of connection, and one trick for improving your health.
Episode 01: Dr. Robert Waldinger, a graduate of Harvard College and Harvard Medical School, currently serves as the director of the Harvard Study of Adult Development. The longest of its kind, this longitudinal study has been following two groups over the last 75 years to identify the psychosocial predictors of healthy aging. The surprising result of this research revealed one important lesson about what really makes for a happy and healthy life — and it’s not what you’d expect.
Episode 1: Keys to a Long and Happy Life: Lessons from Harvard’s 80-Year Study with Dr. Robert Waldinger
Dr. Robert Waldinger People who lived the longest and were the happiest as they grew older were the people who were more connected to other socially and had warmer relationships with other people
Cathleen Toomey Seniority Authority exists to answer your questions on aging, the world has changed dramatically in a generation, with more retirees than ever before living longer with more choices. If you’re an older adult or have an older adult in your life, where do you go to begin to understand those choices. I’m your host Cathleen Toomey with over a decade of work and experience in retirement home communities so send your questions on aging to me, and together, let’s get smarter about growing older.
Welcome. I'm Cathleen Toomey in the next forty-five minutes, you're going to learn the keys, how to live a longer, healthier and happier life based on the world's most comprehensive longitudinal study.
Thank you to our show sponsor, the RiverWoods Group, northern New England largest family of non-profit retirement communities, where active adults find community, purpose, and peace of mind. Visit RiverWoodsGroup.org. Now, let’s hear from today’s guest.
One of the top questions that I get is how to live a long and happy life. Theories abound about how to do this, but some of the strongest research comes from the world's most comprehensive longitudinal study, which has been going on for eighty-three years. My guest today is Dr. Robert Waldinger, director of Harvard Study for Adult Development. Also, clinical professor of psychiatry at Harvard Medical School and director of the Lifespan Research Foundation. Dr. Waldinger is a triple Harvard, a graduate of Harvard College and Harvard Medical School, as well as director of the Harvard program. Welcome to the program, Dr Waldinger.
Dr. Robert Waldinger Thank you. It's great to be here.
Cathleen Toomey Great to have you here. Now tell me, what is the most remarkable aspect of this study that's been going on for so long?
Dr. Robert Waldinger Well, probably the most remarkable aspect is how long it's been going. Eighty-three years is, as far as we know, the longest that any study has followed the same people. So, we started following teenagers in 1938 and we followed them all the way to the end of their lives. A very few of them are still living all in their 90s. And now we've studied their children, all of whom are baby boomers in their 50s and 60s. And soon we hope to study their grandchildren, and they're great grandchildren. But that's the most amazing thing, is that the study went on when most longitudinal studies stop after the first five to 10 years.
Cathleen Toomey What was the inspiration behind starting the study?
Dr. Robert Waldinger Well, they were two separate studies, one was a study of, what was supposed to be the best and the brightest, the finest, upstanding young men from Harvard, of course. So, if you want to study health, you study all white men from Harvard.
Cathleen Toomey That's right. Of course.
Dr. Robert Waldinger Of course. Right. So that's what they wanted to do. They wanted to study healthy young adult development. The other study was a study of inner-city Boston boys from the poorest and most disadvantaged families, and this study was started because the investigators were interested in why some children from really difficult backgrounds managed to stay out of trouble, managed to avoid juvenile delinquency and to grow up reasonably well. So, they were two very different aims. But both were trying to study health at a time when most studies of child and adult development were trying to study what went wrong in development pathology.
Cathleen Toomey As I understand it, you looked at every aspect of the lives of these young men that you began to follow and then found subsequently, and I watermarked on one of the most dramatic findings around two key aspects that you need to live a long, healthy and happy life. Can you talk about those two key aspects?
Dr. Robert Waldinger Yes, the first key aspect won't surprise you at all. It's about self-care, it's about living well in the sense that we found that no surprise, the people who live the longest and stay the healthiest exercise regularly, they eat well, they avoid obesity. They don't smoke. They avoid abusing alcohol or drugs. So, all of that combined sets people up to stay healthier, longer. The second thing, which turned out to be a big surprise to us. Was the finding that the people who live the longest and were the happiest as they grew older were the people who were more connected to others socially and who had warmer relationships with other people. That was a surprise. I mean, we thought, well, yes, if you if you have warmer relationships, you're going to be happier. Not a surprise, but that you actually would live longer, that you might develop the diseases of aging later, if at all. How could that possibly be because of your relationships? But it turned out that other studies were beginning to find the same thing. And now we know that this is a very reproducible finding when we study different groups of people all over the world.
Cathleen Toomey That's incredible to me. I'm really taken, I find great energy in that, because what it says to me is that as adults of perhaps, shall we say, experienced adults, people have had a few years on the planet, that there is something that we can do that will help increase our happiness and our health. Is that your interpretation?
Dr. Robert Waldinger Oh, absolutely. To the to both of those things. Self-care. So really, really getting exercise, getting enough sleep, you know, doing all those things I mentioned and being sure that we take care of our connections with other people, that we keep our relationship strong and vibrant and make new ones.
Cathleen Toomey If you're in our audience and listening to this, what pieces of practical advice would you give people and maybe we could even step back and say, when you talk about relationships, how are you defining that? Does that mean if I'm not married, then I will not be as happy as someone who is married? Is that how I should interpret that?
Dr. Robert Waldinger People ask that a lot, and the answer is no. So, they've done some studies that show that married people live longer than unmarried people, but those are studies that really don't get at what the underlying cause is, so it's not having a marriage license that does it. In fact, we also know that people who are really unhappily married may have more stress and more wear and tear on their bodies because of it. So, the real question is, do you have warm relationships that help you weather the hard times that help you manage stress? And one of the things that we think about is whether you have somebody in the world that you can talk to about personal matters, about one in four people will report, at least in the United States, that there's nobody in the world to whom they can speak about things that matter to them, about things that are really personal. That's no confidants at all.
Cathleen Toomey So one in four Americans have no one to confide in?
Dr. Robert Waldinger Correct. And it's very sad and some of these people are married, some of these people feel so distant from the person they live with that they can't confide in them. So, the real measure is not whether you have a marriage license, it's whether you have somebody who you feel you can really be yourself with and somebody who you feel will help you if you need it. We asked our study participants many years ago now. Who would you call in the middle of the night if you were sick or scared, list all the people you could call? Some people couldn't list anybody. Some people made a long list and everything in between, and it's that feeling that she’s got your back that you have a safety net that seems to be the most important thing or one of the most important things in this finding of ours that relationships keep us healthy.
Cathleen Toomey So let's explore that a little bit more. As far as some of my friends would say, if one is good, 10 is better, does, if you have more friends than anyone else, does that mean you're going to be happier than anyone else, is it a competition?
Dr. Robert Waldinger No, it's not true. It's whether you have what feels to you like the right amount of social contact. So, let's say you're a shy person and actually being with people can be quite stressful. So, you might be a person who needs only one or two very close people in your life and that more people than that caused you a lot of stress. So, for you, having more people would be a problem. There are other people who find it so energizing to have lots of people in their lives, for those people having more friends seems to work out well. So, it is a highly individual matter.
Cathleen Toomey In another characteristic that it seems is important in this aspect is not just friends, but friends you can confide in and be yourself with. And so I would say I would extrapolate that that's another level of knowledge or vulnerability that you would have with your friends, I would say there's probably some people that are friends that you want to keep at a distance, but the ones you're talking about are ones that you can really be most vulnerable with. Is that accurate?
Dr. Robert Waldinger Yes. But you're getting to something that's important, which is that some of our friendships and some of our relationships don't involve confiding. Or even getting emotional support, they might be casual relationships. I struck up a friendship with the man who delivers my mail because I sit on my front porch, particularly as the weather has been nice and I will often be sitting there when he comes to deliver the mail. So, we, we wave, and we exchange a few words, and we don't know each other. We're not close. We don't confide in each other. But there's something very kind of warming about knowing that he's going to arrive every day and we're going to say hi and exchange a few pleasant comments and that that actually turns out to contribute to our well-being. So, you don't have to have a deep confiding relationship for it to be beneficial.
Cathleen Toomey So it's a matter of having those warm connections in your life, and if you are in the audience and you feel like maybe this is something that I need to start paying attention to, and you are more experienced, shall we say, your later in life. How can you make that happen, and I'm thinking especially of older adults who may have lost some friends or whose original friends may have moved away, what advice would you have for those folks to start to cultivate these kinds of new friendships later in life?
Dr. Robert Waldinger Well, certainly we know that casual contact with people is a very common way to start new friendships. So that's why actually in the workplace, water coolers are these kind of iconic places where people, you know, happen to run into each other and they have little conversations and those conversations can develop into something bigger. So, let's say you're not going to work anymore and you're not at an office every day. What else can we do? Well, for many of us, it's finding ways to be with people around shared interests. So maybe there's a gardening club or book club or a political campaign you want to work for or become a poll watcher, you know, at the upcoming election. And you meet people, you just casually meet people. And some of those people might become people you continue to have contact with, particularly if you come together over and over again. Religious communities serve that function. A lot of people become friends with people they meet at a religious service or gathering. Now, we can't have those gatherings right now in the time of the pandemic as easily. But there are other things that we can do on online, on Zoom. And there are things we can do outside, including walking groups. Even in the cold weather, we can dress up warmly and go walking when it's not icy out.
Cathleen Toomey As someone said, there's no such thing as bad weather, just poor choice of clothing.
Dr. Robert Waldinger Yes. Yes.
Cathleen Toomey Especially in New England.
Dr. Robert Waldinger Yeah.
Cathleen Toomey So that your mention of the pandemic leads me to another question. I would anticipate that during this time of the pandemic, it's harder for people to connect with others and that perhaps we have to do we have to be a little bit more focused on reaching out to others and building our friendships.
Dr. Robert Waldinger Yes, very much so. Because we can't just casually walk over and see somebody or drive over or go to a church service or whatever we used to do, so it means really thinking about how could I connect with the people who I'm not getting to see? People have set up. You know, cocktail hours, some people have set up even virtual dinners, some creative ways. People have set up birthday parties, even surprise birthday parties, where you arrange a Zoom call with somebody and you don't tell them, but you arrange all sorts for all sorts of other people to Zoom in the same time to wish happy birthday. And so there are lots of things, actually my son had that, his girlfriend surprised him. And suddenly all these people from elementary school and college and all parts of his life suddenly were showing up on the screen.
Cathleen Toomey It's wonderful.
Dr. Robert Waldinger So there are lots of new and creative ways that we can connect with each other when we can't see each other.
Cathleen Toomey I'd like to dig in a little bit on that question of Zoom Face Time and social media. I know a lot of people who have friends on friends, on social media. What is your take on the value of connecting through social media? And I'm going to differentiate between a static social media presence such as a Facebook or Instagram compared to a live presence, like a Zoom or a FaceTime. And I'm sure that you are looking into this with your second generation of research. But is it does it help build those warm connections to be on social media? In those two different genres?
Dr. Robert Waldinger It depends. Yeah, that's it really does. What we're finding is that, people are very different in how they use social media and then they're different in how they react to being active in social media. So. And a lot seems to depend on individual temperaments and habits and proclivities. And so, what I would say is, first of all, that there is more research happening and we want there to be more research that we can find out. Who actually gets more depressed and unhappy when they're on social media and who gets happier and more excited? But I would say that for now, each of us can check this out for ourselves. So if you find yourself spending half an hour on Facebook or watching a Twitter feed for a few minutes, check in with yourself. Do you feel more energized afterwards, happier, more upbeat, or do you feel more depressed, do you feel like you're missing out on life and everybody else seems to be having a great life out there, depending on how you feel when you've been using social media and these digital tools. You can then decide whether you want to keep doing more of it or do less of it.
Cathleen Toomey That's a very good guide, so check in with yourself and see if you how you're feeling and then either spend more time cultivating those close relationships versus because I think it can be very easy to passively scroll. It's harder to pick up the phone to someone you may not have talked with in a while and reach out. And so perhaps sometimes we have to do the harder thing to get the greater gain. But what I hear you saying is understand where you are and check in to see how you're feeling.
Dr. Robert Waldinger Yes. And the other thing is take more risks in reaching out to people like if there are people you haven't talked to in a while or people you've, you know, just been meaning to call but haven't and you think of it, do it. Most people are thrilled, especially now most people are thrilled to have somebody call out of the blue, to have somebody reach out. And so it really helps to take the initiative. If you think of it, get yourself to do it unless it's three a.m. then wait till morning.
Cathleen Toomey No one wants to hear from you at that point.
Dr. Robert Waldinger No.
Cathleen Toomey I'm so glad you brought that up, because I think there is something that holds us back where we think of a friend that we haven't reached out to. But we were held back because I should have done this earlier. So are you saying that you do it anyway and they will generally be glad to hear from you?
Dr. Robert Waldinger [Oh, yeah. Yeah. Most people won't be saying, well, why haven't you called before? Most people won't do that. They'll just be so pleased that you thought of them and then you've reached out. The other thing to remember is that some people are lonely and some people are isolated. It may be harder for them to reach out because when you're lonely, you're a little more gloomy, you're a little more depressed, and that's more likely to make you reluctant to reach out to people. You start thinking, oh, nobody cares, nobody wants to hear from me. So if you are on the other side of that relationship, if you can, you be the one to make the first move, because sometimes other people can't right now because they're just not feeling well.
Cathleen Toomey I think that is really perfect advice is to be the first person and to try that. And I have to believe that more people are depressed and lonely during the pandemic because all of their other typical social outlets have stopped. So that's got to make even more introverted people feel even more lonely because they're missing that casual connection that they may have relied on.
Dr. Robert Waldinger Absolutely.
Cathleen Toomey So the key is, don't we do this and if you think that this is something that is going to help both you and the recipient be happier in the long run, that's really powerful.
Dr. Robert Waldinger Yeah. The other thing is that reaching out online, if you know how to do that, if you know how to send a message online, can be a kind of low risk way to do it if you're a little afraid to call someone on the phone. Am I going to catch them at a bad time? Are they going to remember who I am? While sending a little message online can be a much easier, low key way, whether that's email or a text or, you know, a message on Facebook that that can be a low risk way. And you will probably be surprised at the enthusiasm with which someone responds to you.
Cathleen Toomey That's a great idea to do that initially, just to send a feeler out and then have them respond and then connect with them in person or over the phone. I think that's a great solution. And it sounds like this might be something that older adults should really invest time doing when you think of people who may be retired, may not be working that investing in cultivating relationships. I think so many times people who are older focus on the past, what they used to have, their friends, that they used to have the activities they used to have. And it's exciting to think of engaging in something new for the future.
Dr. Robert Waldinger Yeah.
Cathleen Toomey Is that a hard switch for older adults to make?
Dr. Robert Waldinger It can be it can be a hard switch for lots of people to make. I mean, I've heard 20 somethings say I don't I'm not really very good at relationships. So it's kind of not working out for me. I'm not going to do much because I don't want to get my hopes up. So even young people get into that mindset. And certainly as we get older and we lose people to death or as you say, to moving away that it can feel like, oh, my time is over for a new relationship, for anything new. And that's just not true. Mean people make friendships in their 90s. And so we know this is documented in research. So, it is very much the case that lots of new things happen for people later on in life. It's just that you need to be alert to some opportunities to take some initiative and not get into that frame of mind that says I'm just going to focus on the past because the future doesn't have much for me. That's doesn't have to be true.
Cathleen Toomey So to be intentional about it and to really work at it and not give up and then you will yield results. Tell me about your second-generation study, the second generation that you are studying of this study that's been going on for eighty-three years. What are you hoping to find in this next generation? What are the questions that you feel still need to be answered?
Dr. Robert Waldinger So many. Well, so the first thing we did was we studied all the men and women in the second generation. In the first generation, we finally brought in the wives. When I started with the study 50 years ago, we brought in the wives and the wives sort of said, you know, it's about time.
Cathleen Toomey It is about time.
Dr. Robert Waldinger And but now we have over half our women in the second generation.
Cathleen Toomey Fantastic.
Dr. Robert Waldinger Yeah. And and what we've focused on is trying to understand how relationships actually get into the body and affect our health. So we're trying to study the biological mechanisms that connect. How we behave, how we feel in relationships and what happens to our bodies over time, so we're studying mechanisms of stress reduction, we're studying how does stress affect the body, different body systems? How does it affect our genetics? Which genes get turned on and off in terms of gene expression? How does it affect our hormones? How does it affect our levels of inflammation and levels of cardiac arousal? So all of that those are the mechanisms that we're trying to study. And so we're doing a lot of interesting things. We are stressing people out. We're asking them to give a speech. We're asking them to do difficult math problems. And then we measure their heart rate and we measure their blood. And you do all kinds of things that that help us understand what happens. How do people manage stress and how how does does the background they came from make a difference in how they manage stress?
Cathleen Toomey I think that I will very much look forward to the results of that, because I think stress is the next frontier. Understanding the impact on the body and how we can control or mitigate the impact of stress is going to be something that we in future generations really need to pay attention to.
Dr. Robert Waldinger Absolutely, and stress now has become so much more of an issue, partly because of the pandemic, because there's a big scary thing out there that we're all trying to manage and it's unknown and you can't see it, there's a lot of political division in our country which has increased everybody's stress levels measurably, and there are a lot of worries about things like climate change and the fires happening now and so many things so so that our general level of stress is higher than it used to be and we're hoping that some of these things will calm down soon, but it means that stress has become more and more something we need to learn how to manage as well as we can.
Cathleen Toomey Well, I think that is a wonderful goal. I'm thrilled that you are studying that, and I hope that we can have you come back to the show when you have learned a little bit more about stress. That's all the time we have today for our topic. I very much want to thank Dr. Waldinger for sharing the information. I think what you've shared with us is very enlightening, that we can live a longer and happier life by cultivating those deep and less deep, warm relationships, and that if we are intentional about that, we can it's something we can start and change today. I want to thank you so much for coming on the program today, Dr. Waldinger.
Dr. Robert Waldinger It was a pleasure. Great to be with you.
Cathleen Toomey Great to see you again.
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